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Over the holidays I had the opportunity to read David Hemenway’s excellent book “Private Guns, Public Health,” published by the University of Michigan Press in 2004. After I started as President of the Brady Campaign/Center to Prevent Gun Violence six months ago, this book was recommended highly as one of the best summaries of the issue of gun violence in the United States. After meeting with Dr. Hemenway at his office at the Harvard School of Public Health last October, I was even more interested in reading this book.
Hemenway starts by making it clear that taking a “public health” approach to the issue of gun violence is no more “anti-gun” than efforts to deal with other areas of injury are “anti-stairs, anti-swimming pools, [or] anti-cars.” He also makes it clear that “[p]ublic health is not anti-gun owner.” The goal of Hemenway’s book is “injury prevention” by focusing on the “public health effects of firearms.”
He “summarizes the scientific literature on the public health effects of firearm availability and firearm policies” and “emphasizes the need for better data.” An Appendix outlines the methodology needed in analyzing this issue, and raises serious questions about the fairness and accuracy of “one widely cited gun proponent, John Lott, Jr.”
A “public health” approach is important to the gun violence debate because it “emphasizes prevention rather than fault-finding, blame, or revenge.” It also focuses on all firearm injuries, including accidents and self-inflicted injuries.
The statistics are sobering: every day in this country, two or three people die from accidental firearms shootings and some thirty are injured; about fifty die each day by suicide with a gun; and, between 1991 and 2000, about forty Americans were murdered with guns on an average day. Hemenway points out that “more guns in a community lead to more homicide” and that a gun in homes “increases the risk of murder for family members” as well as “the risk of suicide and unintentional firearm injury.”
Hemenway goes on the discuss self-defense (”No credible evidence exists for a general deterrent effect of firearms”); location (”Based on all available evidence, arming citizens to reduce crime – in the home, in schools, or on the streets – seems likely to increase rather than reduce the level of lethal violence”); demography (”Across U.S. regions and states, where there are more guns, children are at a significantly greater risk of dying… [and] women are more likely to die violent deaths…”); supply (”the safety of guns is less regulated than virtually any other commodity…New laws are needed to reduce the flow of guns to criminals through the secondary market”); and policy background, policy lessons, and policy actions (”We should no longer accept our high levels of lethal violence as an inevitable by-product of a free American society.”)
The “public health” approach advanced by Hemenway recognizes that efforts to prevent gun violence should be based on good facts with a focus on the manufacturers, distribution, and environment of product use as well as the individual product users. As Hemenway states in his “Conclusion” chapter:
The public health approach is not about banning guns. It is about creating policies that will prevent violence and injuries.
Hemenway calls for action at the federal level: licensing of gun owners and registration of hand guns; one-gun-per-month laws to reduce gunrunning; all gun transfers to go through licensed dealers with background checks; greater scrutiny of licensed dealers; and a federal agency (similar to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) with the power to regulate firearms as a consumer product.
If more of the debate and discussion about guns and gun violence were handled with the clear, studious, and fact-based approach of David Hemenway, we’d be a lot more likely to reach agreement on common-sense steps to make all our communities safer. If you haven’t done so already, read “Private Guns, Public Health” and use it as a starting point in considering the issue of gun violence prevention.
(Note to readers: this blog entry, as well as past blog entrees, are co-posted on www.huffingtonpost.com)
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In regards to licensing gun owners and registration of handguns, let’s look at what is happening in South Africa now. There, due to beaurecratic snafus, it has become almost impossible to renew or obtain firearms licenses. The number of licensed gun dealers has dropped dramatically, again due to government interference. This makes it more and more difficult for the average person to obtain legal means to defend themselves (which is becoming increasingly important in a country where the bad guys can get AK-47s with ease). Needless to say, the criminals do not bother to get licenses for their guns.
Long-gun licensing and gun-owner registration in Canada has been a total disaster. Record keeping is inaccurate and the program, which was suppose to pay for itself, has cost almost 2 billion dollars.
Licensing and registration of firearms and gun owners does not reduce crime and opens the way to eventual confiscation.
Regardless of Hemenway’s intentions, his proposals, if enacted, could easily lead to gun bans and confiscations. Also, only the law-abiding are likely to comply with any licensing or registration.
Interestingly enough, convicted felons would probably have constitutional protection from persecution for failing to comply with any licensing/registration scheme. The Fifth Amendment would protect them from being prosecuted under such laws since convicted felons are already prohibited from owning firearms and to admit it would be self-incrimination. So, as has been pointed out many times, only the other-wise law abiding citizen would be harmed by these types of legislation.
Michael
“No credible evidence exists for a general deterrent effect of firearms.” With statistics showing that law abiding citizens use firearms over 2.5 million times per year in crime deterring or self defense situations, many times without a shot being fired, I am wondering what criteria Mr Hemenway is considering to substantiate his argument. We cannot continue to blame implements for the cause of our Country’s violence. We need to focus our attention and resources on education and preventing criminal
recidivism. Gun laws will never prevent criminals from being criminals.
As founding member of the Concerned Citizens Against Illegal Guns and Gun Violence I must agree that we need to take a public health approach to the issue of guns.
Felons and criminals are prohibited by federal law from even TOUCHING a gun, with a penalty that could land them in prison for somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 years. Why aren’t we working hard to put criminals back in prison so they can’t endanger public health?
The old saying “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” best fits this situation. If the criminals were behind bars then we wouldn’t need extensive gun control measures that have no chance of stopping criminals, who by definition are individuals that break laws to begin with. Why not prevent them from being able to commit crime, thus curing society’s ills?
The police have stated, multiple times in fact, that the law-abiding citizens who are legal gun owners AREN’T the ones that need to be worried about, so why do you continue to make laws that only target the law-abiding?
Assuming for the moment that Mr. Hemenway could get all of his proposals turned into legislation that would then be enacted by the democrat controlled congress and signed into law by a democrat president in 2009, how would he (or you) propose to enforce those new laws? I can honestly say that I, for one, would not comply and, I have no doubt that there are millions of other gun owners who wouldn’t, either. Then what?
I’ll check the bbok out. The problem with the gun debate is that ignorance knows no bounds. Handguns are not all designed for combat, and you would think that gun control advocates would do a little more research about them. Some gun owners do not realize that incorporating manufacturing standards to guns would make them higher quality, even though the prices would go up. I wish the gun debate would go away, myself.
In thir latest paper, the Harvard group attempts to link firearms ownership with increased odds of homicide: “Our findings suggest that in the United States, household firearms may be an important source of guns used to kill children, women and men, both on the street and in their homes,” said Miller.
Think of countries where firearms that kill citizens are NOT those kept in the home…
Are you thinking of police death squads, paramilitary insurgents, military dictators, etc? Places where the populace is unarmed and awaits the knock in the night?
The paper is based on “States with firearm prevalence more than one standard deviation above the mean: Alabama, Arkansas, West Virginia, Mississippi, South
Dakota, Idaho, Alaska, Montana, Wyoming”, which comprised
With gun owners using their guns almost 3 million times/yr to deter violent crime, I have to stop and wonder where this guy is getting his information. Gun registration was the 1st step to confiscation in England and Aussie and we all know about the “effectiveness” of gun control in those countries now don’t we. They have surpassed even NYC in terms of rape, assault, and every other major form of violent crime. Why is it that the 3 million gun owners who deter crime never get to tell their story on the news? - jc (NRA lifemember)
In Hemenway’s recent publication “State-level homicide victimization rates in the US in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001–2003″ the authors conclude “Our findings that household firearm ownership rates are related to firearm and overall homicide rates … suggests that household firearms are a … source of firearms used to kill Americans both in their homes and on their streets.
This they conclude based on less than six percent of the population in nine states. That’s a mighty small ‘truth’.
I find it very interesting that in two situations concerning an inanimate object only one is blamed where the other an individual is blamed. Cars and firearms are both inanimate objects.
Drunk drivers (individuals) are blamed for killing themselves, (controlling an inanimate object), and others because of their actions and in most cases we hold the individual and NOT the inanimate object, solely responsible. When someone is shot with a firearm the firearm (an inanimate object) is blamed.
At no point in eternity will either an automobile or a firearm all by itself begin an action. I’m curious as to why there isn’t a call for more automoblie control? Cars are registered but has that stopped the drunk driving offenses or fatalities? Has there been a hysterical call for the limiting of powerful engines in automobiles? Limiting the size of cars or trucks? I don’t think so. Has a suspended or revoked drivers licenses stopped some drunks (individuals) from driving? NO.
Get real and stop trying to regulate human behavior or legislate to the exception and not the rule. At almost every turn the Brady Bunch has fudged, outright lied, ignored hard cold facts (DOJ figures), etc. to advance their agenda. Their agenda, as stated by Sarah Brady herself is to, “ban all firearms.” Except their own of course.
All through history registration has led to firearm confiscation which has led to enslavement which has led to genocide. Ask Mao, Stalin, Hitler, and all the rest how they were able to do what they did.
What I think is funny about the rabid anti-gunners, is that they want to take away our innate right to legally possess firearms, and to do so they must employ hired men with guns to come take them away.
The Second Amendment has never been about hunting or the shooting sports, it has been about the ability of the citizenry to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. Reading any document written by any of the founding fathers outside of the Consitution will prove this point.
I understand and sympathize Mrs. Brady’s horror at having to live with a husband injured in the line of duty, and I am sorry for that happening. A psychopath will commit violence against himself or others no matter what… Denying everyone else their rights because of the violent actions of just a very small number of people will not solve the problem, and will not help those who have been injured…
Gun control is people control. Only those people who want to control all of us would advocate robbing us of our only real gaurantee against a tyrannical dictatorship.
Peace,
Darrell
Gun controller advocates can argue all they want, but should have learned their lesson by now it’s a no-win political issue.
I wonder how they would feel if someone attacked them strictly because they were unarmed? Have you noticed this “Campaign’s” message has changed, saying “we don’t have a problem with lawful gun ownership”? Why the change in tone, I wonder? Are they shifting tactics to try and appeal to a broader base? Are they even studying this mini-blog to see what makes us tick?
Give it up, already - people own firearms, period. Bad guys will always have them, so let us good guys defend ourselves and our families on a level playing field.
Anyone who disagrees can email me at wadesiers@hotmail.com.
Instead of attacking law-abiding citizens RIGHTS which are GUARANTEED by our Constitution, we should look at the real “terrorism” invading our society…liberal media. Hypocritical liberal media consistently attacks gun ownership and stereotypes gun owners as “neo-nazi’s, rednecks, right-wing extremists” while glorifying media (TV and music) violence in the name of “free speech.” Our children need consistency. Inanimate objects are not to blame.
Hemenway is quoted as stating that “every day in this country, two or three people die from accidental firearms shootings …” (730-1095 deaths per year)
He goes on to say that “the safety of guns is less regulated than virtually any other commodity …”
If improving “public health” is his goal, then perhaps he should be advocating stricter regulations on the following:
Poisons and noxious substances (12,757 deaths), water (3,842 drownings), flammables (3,377 smoke, fire, or flame deaths), non-motor vehicle land transport (1,492 deaths), Doctors (3,059 deaths due to complications). The biggie, is, of course, automobiles (43,354 deaths)*.
Firearm accidental deaths for this time period (2002) amounted to 776, or 0.8 percent of the total.*
A person of average intelligence would look at these statistics and conclude that firearms are pretty darn safe, from an accidental death perspective.
*Compiled from data reported by the National Vital Statistics Report, Vol. 50, No. 15, September 16, 2002
“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.” ~Mao Zedong, “Selected Works of Mao Zedong”
Hey, I think you guys at Brady are great! I’m so sick and tired of this “right to protect” ourselves BS that the wacky gun lobby tries to push on us! I like to look to Washington DC as the model for your platform. Thanks to courageous brilliance, DC passed laws making it illegal to even use a firearm at your home for self defense and now people in DC are safer than anywhere in America. The murder rate there is so low it’s almost unbelievable and violent crime there is, I think, the lowest in the country. Furthermore, I know that I don’t need a gun. If someone tries to break into my home or assaults me on the street, I know that a police officer will be there within a second (or less) to protect me. Keep it up guys!
Here…try this for size (I’ll try to be brief):
You Brady folks can try to recast second amendment rights in whatever way you want in order to smooze things towrds your agenda…
The healthcare issue crappola with attached unelected federal ovrsight scheme pretty well shows where you are coming from and intend to go.
Simply put, gasp about the “law abiding” hoo-ha all you want, those that embrace our constitutional right SIMPLY WON’T COMPLY!
We have no intention of handing it over due to your sophistry. Get it?
RAH
The majority of posts seem to be against your cause.Do you finally get it? Naaah, too much money I guess. I’ll protect my own welfare.
In light of this book review, i find that the implimentation of any more gun laws or restrictions will do nothing more than help to create a society in which the “bad guys” rule the roost. The very presence of a fire arm in a potential life threateing situation can diffuse it quickly and without a single shot fired. I have personally witnessed this 2 times in my life. Do you folks ever report on that? No eh?
In response to #16 comment by “Bob”: Are you living in a gated community? The Bureau of Justice statistics list DC as #1 in murders and non-neglegent homicide per capita @ 3.597 per 10,000 people. #2 is Louisiana at 1.something per 10,000! You have just demonstrated the ignorance of gun-control advocates. I thought less guns means less crime?? Please tell me you were only playing Devil’s Advocate!?
Criminals are already banned from owning firearms… doesn’t seem to be stopping them.
So the solution is to make ever more laws restricting firearm ownership.
If criminals don’t obey the laws we have now, what makes you think they’ll obey the new laws you want passed?
Since restricting or banning firearm ownership has worked so well to lower violent crime rates in England, Canada, and Australia, (all of which have shown a dramatic increase in violent crime since limiting firearm ownership) it’s safe to assume that it’ll work here, right?
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.
On Tuesday evening, a 15 year old was shot multiple times by an 18 year old over a dispute over, essentially, nothing. Not that many years ago, the dispute would have been settled by a fist fight, with no death resulting. What do the “no regulation” or “weak regulation” posters suggest as a prevention intervention for keeping the guns out of the hands of under age 21 young people?
Every time the democrats get control of any part of our country they scream GUN CONTROL. I have been a police officer for almost 30 years in large urban and small rural agencies and I know for a FACT that gun control simply does not work. The criminals who the police deal with and citizens have to put up with don’t obey the laws we have now. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED CRIMINALS! We don’t need additional gun control laws. About 1 to 2 percent of the population in our country are dirtbags and it will always be so. Also, for your information the NRA supports police officers far more than you have or will. Regards, Jerry Warman jmanflyer@aol.com (A voter)
Why does the Brady campaign refuse to recognize it is the “actions and behaviors” of irresponsible or law breaking individuals who happen to possess firearms that make up the statistics in the book rather than the behaviors of responsible law abiding gun owners?
Why is not the Brady onus placed on personal accountability for behavior and stricter enforcement of criminal laws rather than sqwaking and screaming as Chicken Little “ban guns, guns are bad”?
Society is not like Kindergarten where all should be punished for the actions of the relatively few albeit those few likely be repeat offenders. Thank our founding fathers and their foresight in the Second Amendment.
Shall we ban streets and highways because without them the frequency of high speed car accidents would be significantly reduced? Shall we restrict refrigerator capacity for the public health menace of obesity?
Darwinian natural law will sort out the stupid and the criminals without regard to Bradiesque firearm laws will take the lives of those too meek to defend their own lives. Placing further restrictions on firearm ownership for law abiding citizens will solve neither.
Well, 2 hours have passed since I asked for suggestions to prevent keeping guns out of the hands of youth under 21. A gun used in a crime in our city was sourced to an owner with a number of guns stored in a glass cabinet, locked. The crime gun which came from this locked glass cabinet was stolen (how hard was that?). So here’s one suggestion: require that guns in homes be stored in a locked safe (you know, the kind that weigh a ton) with serious and heavy civil fines for those who chose not to store their guns in locked safes for the first offense, and criminal penalties for those who chose not to do so for a second offense. Ok now, think…your turn.
During a recent trip to the east coast, I read the local newspaper at my motel each night. In all the papers I read, there was no “gun violence.” However, I did find two separate accounts of domestic violence in two states. In each case the weapon of choice was a stick of firewood.
Would Mr. Hemenway suggest that all firewood be registered? Perhaps limiting how much firewood can be purchased at one time? No firewood large enough to be used as a weapon?
People kill people, Mr. Hemenway. As soon as you ban one item, they will either ignore the ban or find some other way. Don’t disarm the innocent!
Karen:
Using your logic, the only people should be able to have a gun for self-defense are the ones who can afford a gun safe. What about the woman who is wants a handgun to protect herself from a battering husband? (That’s just one example…there are others.)
I support safe storage of firearms and do own a gun safe. However, mandating that all gun owners own expensive gun safes would disenfranchise many people from the right of self-defense.
If the Brady campaign was serious about reducing crime, they would support concealed carry laws. Concealed carry laws are now in effect in 48 states. They would be in effect in all 50 states, except for two Governors and the Chicago Mayor.
Criminals are reluctant to act if they think that citizens might be able to protect themself. Bad things are going to happen to you if you try to rob, kidnap or car jack me.
If you try to disarm me, I will not guarantee your safety. Guns safe lives.
In response to Karen Fischer’s post…
According to the Washington Post, 7 firearms, including 2 submachine guns, were stolen last night. I’m sure these weapons will be used in some criminal activity in the near future. So who would the ’serious civil and criminal penalties’ be levied against? An agent of the FBI, of course!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01 /18/AR2007011801209.html
The person who should be penalized for their behavior is the thief who stole the weapons, not the person who owns them.
Ask Jessica Carpenter how she feels about mandatory gun locks. She’s the 14 year old child that was forced to do nothing as her brother and sister were murdered, because California’s ’safe storage’ laws kept her from accessing a firearm. Even though she was fully trained in firearm usage, California’s insane law kept her from defending her siblings.
Well, Karen Fischer, if you want to surrender your protection against illegal search and seizure, go ahead and mandate storage of private property. That way, the police can enter your home any time without a warrant to make sure your guns are “safe.”
And, while we’re at it, when your car is stolen after being parked in the driveway rather than “secured” in the garage and used in a crime, you can be held liable for that. And when someone breaks into your house and hurts themselves because your home wasn’t properly “secured” against illegal entry, you can be responsible for that, too.
Guns are private property. Accept it. Respond to wadesiers@hotmail.com if you care to disagree.
“Well, 2 hours have passed since I asked for suggestions to prevent keeping guns out of the hands of youth under 21. A gun used in a crime in our city was sourced to an owner with a number of guns stored in a glass cabinet, locked. The crime gun which came from this locked glass cabinet was stolen (how hard was that?). So here’s one suggestion: require that guns in homes be stored in a locked safe (you know, the kind that weigh a ton) with serious and heavy civil fines for those who chose not to store their guns in locked safes for the first offense, and criminal penalties for those who chose not to do so for a second offense. Ok now, think…your turn.”
I THINK that if you banned cars, or at least locked them up in bunkers, there would be less car jackings, less accidents, and, less youth stealing and joy-riding in them…hurting their little selves.
And, I THINK that if responsible front step owners covered their steps with foam rubber -that would be just a whole lot safer.
In fact, I THINK that everybody ought to do everytrhing to address every hurtful possibility -it is only the right thing to do to keep the children safe.
I mean, the functional, rational, productive, un-insane members of the society should bear the total burden of responsibility for those who are chronically NOT RESPONSIBLE.
To this end, it will probably be required that we dissolve the consitution, the republic -and accept a warm & fuzzy dictatorship from the selp-appointed warm & fuzzy do-gooders among us…
I’m sure Helmke, the rest of the Brady bunch & that Osama Barokka guy from Chicago would agree.
I THINK that.
RAH
Hey, folks, we’re not going for perfection here. We’re going for minimizing the chances that guns will be stolen and used for criminal purposes.
The FBI agent’s guns were not stolen from his home; they were stolen from his FBI car, which was locked and equipped with an alarm. The guns were further secured inside the car-the thief had to go through 3 levels of security to get to the weapons. The FBI is investigating, as usual, to make sure policies and procedures were followed. Chris failed to cite the source of his anecdote, so I question the validity of the statement until he does. Further, I can cite numerous anecdotes which prove the opposite-children’s lives lost because guns were not adequately secured.
No one answered my question: what do you propose to do to prevent murders, suicides, and unintentional deaths in youth under 21 from guns in the home? Come on people, think!
when will these brady buttheads realize that the very essence of self preservation lies in the fact that we as armed AND law abiding citizens, do as law enforcement agencies do????? We are carrying guns to protect ourselves, to protect our families and to protect our loved ones, even the guy or gal we dont know that is being harmed…..This aint no Clint eastwood/john Wayne wanna be club, this is about protecting our basic rights to defend ones self in a time of need and desperation when the authorities are not readily available. This is about defending our right to LIVE…..
Geeze, Paul…
Nine days and dear Karen is the only faithful that showed up to help carry your water.
Me doth wonder about your troops combat readiness, El Presidente.
Most amusing.
RAH (That should get her a Cook county job, right? Autographed pic of Tinky Winky?)
To Start Off I am Pro Gun only a total fool would not be.If you want to keep children from hurting someone or there selves with guns teach them what they are and how to use them the same as you would any other tool. I have 3 children and 15 grandchildren there is probably 12 firearms in our home every child learns from the time they can walk “dont touch the guns until Grandpa says you are ready. When they reach 10 years old we go to the range and they start there gun safety lessonds. they learn to shoot and how to handel both pistol and rifle there has never been anyone hurt with a gun in my family. rule #1 all guns are loaded so treat them as such and with respect. you do not give your child a skill saw or leave it plugged in and leave it for the children to play with nor do you give your child the car keys without teaching them how to use them the same goes for guns. Guns have nothing to do with your personality If you are going to kill someone you will kill them gun,axe,car,club or even a rock. If you are not inclined to kill owning 50 guns will not cause you to kill. Only a stupid idiot would thank otherwise.a killer will kill,a rapest will rape and a thief will steal.having a gun may if you are lucky ma prevent you from being the next victim. I quit being a cop because of people that want to cry and gripe because the cop didn’t get there in time. not enough cops and two many I can’t help my self wipe my own butt.Gun Restrictions and outlawing guns has not slowed crime in the least nor will it ever make the slightest differgnce except to make crime easier. I hope these anti gun jerks are the first victums.
Education is the only gun safety that is required. under 21 ha ha if they don’t have the education by then its kinda too late they should be educated before they are 15. if they were then there would be no problem.
I tried to make a comment on the huffington post but I guess they dont want to hear what I have to say but I guess I can not blame them as I am Against Everythang they support You Know Being An Intelligant American gun owner that is against gun registeration
A you for defenseless? I am Anti-self-defenseless. There is a crime problem not a public health or a gun problem. How are the weak, infirmed, eldery to defend themselves against the strong? How should the lone individual defend against the gang, mob or tyranical government? Paul Helmke you are incorrect, David Hemenway’s, “Private Guns, Public Health,” is not an excellent book. It is biased and self serving.
Interesting claims. http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10.html has the official, true numbers. I suggest anyone dumb enough to swallow Hemenway’s consistently biased and slanted claims should at least visit the CDC’s site and see what kind of massaging is required to equal his numbers. You’ll find very few deaths due to accidental (”unintentional”) firearms incidents. And very few for genuine children, i.e., 15 years and under. As for suicides, well, where there’s a will there’s a way and a lack of firearms doesn’t seem to affect the Japanese suicide rate.
If you were really honest, you’d simply admit that you’re too much of a wimp do even consider defending yourself so, to prevent personal embarrassment, you want to make it impossible for the rest of us to defend ourselves as well. Or, at least impossible for those of us who can’t afford to live in gated communities and hire personal, licensed bodyguards.
I strongly agree with Karen’s views on this; and, I also would recommend that the Brady Campaign consider writing/publishing their own in-depth book on gun control & gun issues (as Hemenway has done…), in order to get their views more accessible/available to the mass market … as not everyone uses Internet discussion sites & blogs.
Best,
Kelli
What a simple, moderate, third-way approach to the gun issue? Three simple concepts: 1)What about enforcing new gun laws? Add 1,000 agents to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms. 2)What about the federal law shielding gunmakers and dealers from lawsuits? Repeal it!!! 3)What about new gun laws? The answer is simple: leave it to the states to decide.
Correction: when I mentioned the enforcement of gun laws by adding 1,000 BATF agents, I ment CURRENT federal laws, NOT new gun laws.
So basically, what I mean by a “third way” on guns is this: 1)enforce current federal gun laws by adding 1,000 BATF agents 2)there should be no expansion of direct federal gun control 3)states and localities should be allowed their own gun policies 4)lawsuits should be permitted against the gun industry, or at least the federal government should not grant it legal immunity
While the pro-gun critics may flay me for favoring allowing lawsuits, they might notice that I actually favor excluding some forms of gun control from federal control: licensing, registration, anything that bans firearms, among other things
Gotta love the libs in this country. Only the high and mighty will be protected, and the masses are left to their own devices. By the way, in DC, it was held that the police are not responsible for citizens, but for the public at large. That of course means what ever they want it to mean. In the case that prompted it, three women were beaten, raped and robbed repeatedly, called the police, and nothing was done. When they sued, the result was the above. I would not recommend you try this in my home, but you can rely on the cops if you choose. In my area, the response time is a hot to go 45 minutes to get there. Thank you, I will take care of my own, and you can do the same. Please stay out of my business.
Gun control/confiscation is evil and sexist and racist and disproportionately affects the poor.
It is also a sign of weakness and lust for power.
Gun control is not about guns; it is about control.
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Karen, I practice safe storage of my firearms. I am licensed to carry a concealed firearm for the protection of my family, and I teach firearm safety to youths in my community. These are things I do to promote safety in my community. I think your safe-storage proposals may have some merit, but since you and the Brady Campaign both proclaim an intent to make this an issue of public health, perhaps the cost of buying that heavy safe for each and every gun owner should be bourn by the Bady Campaign. Afterall, the average gun owner does not leave their firearms out on the street for kids to pick up…and this is a public health issue. (My statements here are self-evident. Do not play the rouse of asking me for sources.) My question for you is: What are YOU doing to solve this problem?
In regards to Karen’s posts, I reject this notion that anyone under 21 is a “youth”. To me, “children” means the 0-4 and 5-14 categories in the CDC and NCHS web sites.
As other have noted, the #1 cause of death is AUTOMOBILES by a WIDE margin. Almost TEN times the rate of firearm related injuries in some years. After that is falls, drownings and other accidents. As the book “Freakonomics” points out, a swimming pool is a HUNDRED times more likely to be the cause of death in a family than a gun.
But to classify a bunch of gang banger adult criminals (18-21) as innocent “youth” is ridiculous. The real issue is the culture of violence in America, shamelessly promoted and profited from by the very states that ban the guns!!! California and New York house all the major media producers, the ones glorifying violence, and they are the ones with all the bans. Why do kids feel that they have no other options but to turn to crime? That they have no future? Because that the message beaten into their heads every day. If you don’t have bling, you ain’t nothin’…
If the Brady Campaign wants to curb firearm violence then they should work to improve the country’s education system. Educated people have a future and don’t need crime to acquire resources. Blaming the tool of the trade, whether guns or automobiles, is idiotic.
BOTTOM LINE.
-Dan
Guns prevent crime. I feel unsafe if I’m not armed. Let’s run down the list of who wanted to ban arms:
-Hitler
-Turkish goverment (armenian genocide)
-Hutus ( killed unarmed Tutsis)
-The british goverment.
-Pol Pot.
-Czarist Russia
- The UN
Let’s find out what happened to the people targeted and
disarmed:
Jewish folk/non-aryans-rounded up and exterminated by the millions.(funny, the gun ban seemed not to apply to the SS)
Armenians- destroyed by Turkish troops, at least a million slain.
Tutsis- at least 1 million killed by Hutus armed with weapons purchased from the UN.
The Brits- crime rate soared, mass murders.
Cambodia- everyone except the Khmer Rouge disarmed, countless people left butchered by the goverment.
Russian Jewish folk- exterminated in “pograms” by the thousands.
(the UN)Sudanese refugees- The first step apon entering UN camps is disarment of refugees. UN routs and collaberation with guerrilas cause the massacre of thousands. UN peacekeepers are also killing/raping refugees, even though that is the very thing they are supposed to be protected from.
But, you say, the people’s goverments and police will protect them from crime and war. Considering that at least 114 million people were slaughtered in the 20th century by their own rulers, these people are the ones they need protection from. The constitution says that we can own guns. Deal with it.
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I guess under this type of thinking, Sarah Brady and her phonies would like to ban automobiles also ? Any ide how many are killed nationwide each day in fatal accidents ? How many people commit suicide with vehicles ? Perform burglaries and other violent crimes using a car as transportation ? If only they did not have access to a car ?? What a joke ! You can kill somone with a wooden bat, should we outlaw the use of bats also …. so much for major league baseball. Get a life you folks !!!
Re post #32: You might not be advocating “perfection” but if you burden the public with enough regulations the process of owning guns becomes a cost/legally prohibitive exercise and no longer the choice of the average person. Only those who are financially/politically well off can participate. Criminals, of course, will ignore legal regulations on guns. The result is an operational ban on legal ownership.
I find it difficult to take the Brady Campaign seriously given their support of keeping the handgun ban (for the law abiding) in Washington DC and supporting an “assault weapons” ban. There’s a big difference between being concerned about proper firearms usage vs. advocating outright bans to stop violence.
This doesn’t really belong, but I found it interesting. Taken from Dianne Feinstein’s own website under “on the issues.”
“I will insist that judicial nominees respect and follow the Constitution and all the rights it sets forth. I will not support those who are out of the mainstream.”
- U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein
THAT STATEMENT IS A FLAT OUT LIE!! the fact that this woman has a CCW permit is scary. especially after seeing that picture of her at a speech with a loaded AK47, waving it out towards the crowd with her FINGER ON THE TRIGGER! Hmm, ignorance of basic firearms safety maybe?!
In regards to Karen Fischers comments in what can we do to prevent accidental/unintentional shootings of our teens, to me the answer is simple. Educate all of our children in gun safety and the danger of unsafe handling, exactly what I was taught when I was younger. I will ask the same question I asked our school board, “We can teach our children how to have safe sex, how not to get AIDS, how not to get pregnant but when it comes to firearms education safety suddenly becomes taboo. Many times I have seen Brady be critical of the Eddie Eagle Program offered by the NRA and for what reason? The program is an award winning program that is more than self proven. Without disclosing my age I will say it was not that long ago where a friend of mine and myself brought firearms to school and gave a lecture/learning session on gun safety and it was well received. Try that today and you’ll end up in prison. I live in the state of Wisconsin where Senator Herb Kohl authored the 1000 yard gun safe school zone and what good has it done. Columbine as well as numerous other school shootings have still occurred. We have become a society that turns our heads to many of our social problems, most prevalently noticeable is violent crime, henseforth accepting the crime as an everyday occurance which over time has also lessoned the seriousness of the crimes committed and at the same time hardening our opinions of how to deal with the perpetrators of crimes. In other words, all to often either nothing or very ineffective consequences are realized after a serious offense is committed. We need to accept the fact that in order to stop crimes we need to toughen up our system and start seriously enforcing harsh penalties for criminal acts.
As bad as it sounds, education and yes at a very young age is by far the best cure for accident prevention and it will work with firearms also. As a child I was taught a safe way to cross a busy street, how to handle a kitchen knife, how to handle a scissors, how to safely ride a bike and the list goes on and on. Amazingly, all of these safety techniques taught to me by my parent, a single mom, have stuck with me and even more amazingly come naturally. My question is how many deaths are year aren’t being prevented every year because firearms education is not being implimented? That to me is my “common sense” approach to what appears to be a complex problem.
Long live our great country and may our freedoms surpass the lives of our childrens children tenfold!
Yeah, whatever, you gun-nutz can go on and on and on about “education” and “responsibility,” but I prefer to live in ignorance and have the gov’t take care of me! I’d rather live in a police state than have to take care of me myself. Brady Campaign rulz!
-Bob from Comment #16
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Position Paper #23 of the Guns and Dope Party:
Little Tony was sitting on a park bench munching on one candy bar after another. After the 6th candy bar, a man on the bench across from him said, “Son, you know eating all that candy isn’t good for you. It will give you acne, rot your teeth, and make you fat.”
Little Tony replied, “My grandfather lived to be 107 years old.”
The man asked, “Did your grandfather eat 6 candy bars at a time?”
Little Tony answered, “No, he minded his own f–king business.”
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So… no one has a gun in DC? This is a horrendous failure just like the law in NYC. Come to Dallas and try and carjack someone here! You won’t go home. The NRA is the only thing that has kept the Constitution safe. One other thing, if the founding fathers had been faggots like you, America wouldn’t exist today.
“The heroes are made today, from the rifles of the NRA….”
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So, the Brady Center is not against legal gun ownership. Or, so they say. Can they then please explain why it is that it is necessary to pass laws that will be, of course, totally ignored by the criminals?
And Karen, the difference between a gun in a safe, and (say) an insurance policy in a safe, is that the insurance policy in a safe still has value. If the time ever comes when a couple of crazed druggies kick in my front door, or accost me in a dark parking lot, I want my gun, loaded (condition 1), on my hip.
To Karen.
How do you propose a safe storage law can be enforced.
How will the cops know which houses contain firearms and which do not.
Should people be forced to lock up toxic chemicals under their sinks?
How about power tools in the garage?
You also assume that anyone under 21 accessing a firearm has the intention of doing something illegal with it.
This is simpley insulting.
I’ve kept a gun in my bedroom from the age of 12 to current, and I have never committed a crime with a firearm.
Don’t blame an inanimate object or the legal owners of such objects for what criminals do.
Blame the CRIMINAL.
By the way Karen, I have 2 gun safes in my home where the majority of my collection is kept. But, I at all times have a gun on my hip when I’m on my own property.
My guns are not a threat to “youth”, they are a threat to criminals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ask1Vpi93ec&mode=related&sear ch=
This is why I carry a gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0iBDZ78GjI&NR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne0FPzbLGb4&NR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of9uYItn78M
And this is a must see, these people exist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flNUFBRtB8&mode=related&sear ch=
sometimes the good guys win.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odJEwbJVf8o
Full auto and semi auto….assault weapons. The Truth.
http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/4101
Gareth:
Not sure if you are still out there. I saw this on the Judicial Activism blog but got in too late to comment.
The Brits do have a NRA but it obviously does not have the stroke of the one here in the US.
http://www.nra.org.uk/
Afrikaner
I am commenting here since the most recent three blogs are filled up and not accepting comments.
Afrikaner
Great article on clayton Cramer and his new book “Armed America: The Story of How and Why Guns Became as American as Apple Pie”. Cramer was one of the historians who debunked Michael Bellsiles book and cost him the Bancroft Award.
http://www.washtimes.com/culture/20070326-103034-4965r.htm
Afrikaner
Thank you William Jefferson Clinton. Because of your ban of magazines over 10 rounds, we now have light, powerful, reliable, and tremendously concealable pocket pistols. Take the Glock model 30 in .45 ACP…. Small, and with the extremely effective, proven in Iraq, powdered metallic bullets, all I need to protect me and my family.
BTW, have you heard what happened in New Orleans? After Katrina, it was like a war zone. There were a lot of dead bad guys who thought they could take from others. And now, in and around New Orleans, gun sales are going through the roof!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
I have the Means, the Ability, and the Attitude.
I will slip into Hell and Darkness to protect those that I love.
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What a conglomeration of junk science (according to statistics from VPC…not the FBI or DOJ) and false “data”. I noted one comment where “the arrest rate for weapon-related offenses among Texas concealed handgun license holders was 66% higher than that of the general adult population of Texas.” You might want to at least go to the TX DPS website and look at the printed, hard data. The HIGHEST percentage over a 7 year period is 0.3708% criminal conviction of CHL holders vs criminal convictions of the general population. I can only imagine where you pull these statistics from and find it difficult to believe that you have room for both those statistics AND you head up there.
Well, I will be buying another Glock 30 this week. Loaded with RBCD, it will replace my Smith and Wesson 457! It will live in the nightstand next to my bed. Ready for “night ops”…
Virginia Tech: Now we see how “gun free” zones work…. 32 dead! And YOU are to blame…
If the students or teachers had been armed, one gook with a gun would have been stopped! This is the ONLY way to solve problems like this….
I am ready… are you?
Join the NRA. They get it right!
“Be afraid of no man,
No matter what size.
When trouble threatens, call on me,
For I shall equalize.”